So, the wires were in the way.

And, you know, he was—he liked the art. We didn't have—to me, I think that's new, in the '80s or something. [… –MC]HUNTER DROHOJOWSKA-PHILP:  Down by MacArthur Park you mean?MARY CORSE:  We would walk barefoot [laughs] from where I stayed to school. And he'd also had graduated—was doing—but anyway, he was very involved in his performance and sculptural work. Instead, he introduced her to Richard Bellamy, the New York dealer, who represented her during the 1970s, until she signed with Doug Chrismas of Ace Gallery in the 1980s.When I ask her if she resented being shut out of the male-dominated cliques of successful LA artists, she refuses to be drawn.
And someone else might—you know, the old saying is, "When are you going to paint the painting?" When I was around 30 I divorced.HUNTER DROHOJOWSKA-PHILP:  So, how many years then were you married?HUNTER DROHOJOWSKA-PHILP:  Well, no I'm just—so you don't remember what year you married? And how am I going to get light in the painting without any lights? It is a square composition of three crisp vertical bands inflected with off-white brushstrokes; Corse asks me to help her drag it out to where we can see it better.

[Laughs.] Uh-huh. It wasn't easy. And I would let it dry really slow on sand, because I figured if it doesn't know that it's moving, it won't crack if I move it so slow. She wanted me to go there.

With Dick, there was more energy. Dick was such an unusual dealer, you know? Because of course he'd had such success with the other work. [Affirmative.] [… –MC] I didn't get it through logic. They're actually a lot of work.HUNTER DROHOJOWSKA-PHILP:  How long does it take you to finish—typically finish, say, an eight-foot painting? I mean, not a totally different—they don't deny each other, but I guess it's all like a conversation, in a way. How—HUNTER DROHOJOWSKA-PHILP:  —in what way do you think he held back—held you back?MARY CORSE:  Well, Dick—you know, I couldn't even say. He liked that.HUNTER DROHOJOWSKA-PHILP:  Because he was afraid that he might lose you as a—he might lose you to another gallery?MARY CORSE:  I always thought he was afraid I might lose my artistic thread.MARY CORSE:  And in a way, it was sort of helpful. This is the under-layers, because the way it's drying. And—MARY CORSE:  I went to the Y or something first. Getting rid of the color, over—even though what I was trying to say is, essentially, the color is still there. That's where it is. Was it—was that when it was? We talked about the nature of perception and sort of being associated with the Light and Space movement as it's called in L.A. in the '60s, and you talked about how you do and do not fit in there. So I made these forms, the square—HUNTER DROHOJOWSKA-PHILP:  Well, that's when you did the Plexiglas floating boxes.MARY CORSE:  [… –MC] I started doing the squares. And I thought, well, that would have been an interesting additional piece of your story from—in terms of working in the 1960s, when it was so hard for women to have any credibility at all.MARY CORSE:  Well, it was, and also for me it was even worse because I didn't want to, like—some "Women's Lib" thing. [Affirmative.] Not you, but your art.MARY CORSE:  Well, in 1970 the Guggenheim did hang that piece, too. And they seemed to be the most intelligent about the ego, and the development of the ego, and state of mind—you know. She wanted me to, you know, do that. How do you end up going to Europe?MARY CORSE:  I'm 18, 19. You know, Dick was great—miss him. Is it after that that you developed a relationship with Doug Chrismas?MARY CORSE:  It is. I was trying to get light.And the other thing that started early then, too, is around the outside of the shape was an—indented, under-painted. So now the viewer, as you move, the painting would change. )The problem, however, was that the LA company that supplied Corse with the parts for her Tesla coils had a rule: above a certain power rating, they required a certificate of proper training before selling their components. And I actually made them come back the next day. ]MARY CORSE:  Well, I made a few sales with Dick. There's no need for it. ]MARY CORSE:  Of course I agree with everything, but I'm not a joiner, usually. You can only do so many layers a day, and then, the sanding takes a few days each layer. This is Hunter Drohojowska-Philp, interviewing Mary Corse at the artist's studio in Topanga, CA, on December 14th, 2013, for the Archives of American Art, Smithsonian Institution, card number three.So Mary, here we are again, revisiting some of the things we talked about a few months ago.

[Laughs. And I started building these big light boxes. I never saw her paintings, you know.

Next you went to Europe.HUNTER DROHOJOWSKA-PHILP:  In 1962, you went to Europe, and you had your—MARY CORSE:  That's right.

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